Starts at the Top Podcast

Why Every Leader Needs an Exit Strategy

We chat with Kwesi Afful, Executive Director of Digital and Marketing at Scope.

Kwesi Afful, Executive Director of Digital and Marketing at Scope, joins us to discuss his bold approach to leadership: building the deletion of his role into the company's business plan.

In this episode of Starts at the Top, we have a cracking chat with Kwesi Afful, the Executive Director of Digital and Marketing at Scope. Kwesi shares his journey from the NHS to the charity sector and highlights the importance of collaboration and partnerships to achieve greater impact.

But here's the real kicker: Kwesi's decided to make his role redundant by April 2026! This bold move challenges traditional notions of leadership and succession planning, raising questions about how we can ensure a smooth transition and continued success for organisations.

 

Key takeaways from this episode:

• Collaboration is king: Kwesi highlights the power of working together to achieve greater impact, both within and across sectors.

• Building accessibility into technology: Kwesi discusses the importance of making technology accessible for everyone, including staff and beneficiaries.

• The value of cross-sector collaboration: Kwesi shares his experience working with Deloitte to develop an accessible GenAI tool and emphasizes the importance of standing up for your values in these collaborations.

• Charities need to work together more: Kwesi calls for greater collaboration among charities to share learning, increase purchasing power, and influence the ethical development of emerging technologies.

• The importance of an exit strategy: Kwesi's bold move to plan for the deletion of his role sparks a conversation about succession planning and the need for leaders to consider their exit strategy.

Join us as we explore these topics and more with Kwesi Afful in this inspiring episode of Starts at the Top.

Paul and Zoe discuss what’s happening with AI across the charity sector, including the new AI taskforce and the consultation for the new Charity Digital Code of Practice.

 

Show notes:

 

Find out more about Scope

Zoe and Paul discussed:

The Charity AI Taskforce https://www.wearecast.org.uk/our-work/how-we-work-with-funders-and-partners/charity-ai-task-force/

The Charity Digital Code of Practice consultation (small charities)

The Charity Digital Code of Practice consultation (large charities)

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

We're republishing our episode with Sal Naseem ahead of our new season which starts this Thursday, 27th February. This episode launched in the lead-up to Christmas 2024 and we are incredibly proud of it. We wanted to give our listeners, another chance to listen and to bring it to the top of everyone's feeds. 

Trigger warning: This episode contains descriptions of racial abuse, workplace bullying, and discrimination which some listeners may find distressing

In this powerful episode, Sal Naseem, former Regional Director for London at the Independent Office for Police Conduct, shares his extraordinary journey of leading change within policing oversight during some of the most challenging cases in recent history, from Wayne Cousins to the Sarah Everard case. He discusses how maintaining your values and moral compass is crucial when pushing for systemic change, even in the face of intense resistance.

In his role as Regional Director for London at the Independent Office for Police Conduct, Sal spent nearly a decade overseeing some of the most high-profile police misconduct cases. Recognised as one of the top 10 voices on anti-discrimination on LinkedIn and named in the Diversity Power List 2023-24, Sal has contributed to several BBC documentaries and is a fellow of the Royal Society of Arts.

Through his deeply personal account, Sal shares vital lessons about leading change in complex systems:

• Why finding common purpose with unlikely allies is crucial for driving meaningful change

• The importance of approaching leadership with humility and leaving ego at the door

• How to maintain your values when faced with systemic resistance

• The true cost of driving change and the importance of self-care

• Why exceptional leadership is rooted in consistent character both inside and outside work

One of Sal's most powerful insights is that "to lead in a values-led way and to lead in a true sense is hard because you have to make hard choices." His experiences demonstrate how maintaining your moral compass can guide you through the most challenging leadership decisions.

Sal's new book, "True North: A Story of Racism, Resilience and Resisting Systems of Denial" is available on Amazon and in all good bookshops. It offers a raw and honest account of his experiences fighting for change within the system while facing institutional resistance and personal challenges.

Photo credit: Lensi Photography

Buy Sal’s best-selling book, “True North: A Story of Racism, Resilience and Resisting Systems of Denial"

Subscribe to Sal’s newsletter https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/finding-your-true-north-7201671449361756160/

And please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

 

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

 

The Year AI Changed Everything: 2024's Biggest Leadership Lessons

We chat to Alison Court, Chief Transformation Officer at Oxfam

In a special end-of-the-year episode, Starts at the Top tackles the elephant in every boardroom: artificial intelligence.

Paul and Zoe unpack how 2024 became the year AI moved from buzzword to business reality, revealing stark differences between how charities and companies are rising to the challenge.

Drawing on their vantage points across both sectors, Paul and Zoe deliver eye-opening insights: while grassroots charity workers are embracing AI with gusto (adoption soaring from 35% to 61% this year), many charity leaders remain hesitant. Meanwhile, the private sector is seeing AI reshape entire business models, backed by serious investment. The resulting discussion is both a wake-up call and a practical roadmap for 2025.

We discuss:

• Why 2024 marks a turning point in AI adoption across sectors

• The surprising truth about where AI innovation really happens in charities

• How private equity is transforming the accountancy sector through AI investment

• Essential lessons from Oxfam's pioneering approach to AI governance

• What charity boards must do differently in 2025

• Preview of game-changing AI guidance coming in the new Charity Digital Code of Practice

Featured Interview: Alison Court, Oxfam's Chief Transformation Officer, shares candid insights about getting board-level buy-in for AI innovation - a must-listen for anyone trying to drive digital change from the top.

Looking ahead to 2025, Paul and Zoe discuss their AI New Year's resolutions for leaders, including Zoe's insider preview of the updated Charity Digital Code of Practice and Paul's compelling case for putting AI at the heart of five-year strategies.

Don't miss this essential capstone to a year that changed everything about how we think about leadership and AI.

Note - The clip we discussed at the end of the episode hasn't been included. We'll add it to a future episode and share it on social media.

 

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

 

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

 

Trigger warning: This episode contains descriptions of racial abuse, workplace bullying, and discrimination which some listeners may find distressing

In this powerful episode, Sal Naseem, former Regional Director for London at the Independent Office for Police Conduct, shares his extraordinary journey of leading change within policing oversight during some of the most challenging cases in recent history, from Wayne Cousins to the Sarah Everard case. He discusses how maintaining your values and moral compass is crucial when pushing for systemic change, even in the face of intense resistance.

In his role as Regional Director for London at the Independent Office for Police Conduct, Sal spent nearly a decade overseeing some of the most high-profile police misconduct cases. Recognised as one of the top 10 voices on anti-discrimination on LinkedIn and named in the Diversity Power List 2023-24, Sal has contributed to several BBC documentaries and is a fellow of the Royal Society of Arts.

Through his deeply personal account, Sal shares vital lessons about leading change in complex systems:

• Why finding common purpose with unlikely allies is crucial for driving meaningful change

• The importance of approaching leadership with humility and leaving ego at the door

• How to maintain your values when faced with systemic resistance

• The true cost of driving change and the importance of self-care

• Why exceptional leadership is rooted in consistent character both inside and outside work

One of Sal's most powerful insights is that "to lead in a values-led way and to lead in a true sense is hard because you have to make hard choices." His experiences demonstrate how maintaining your moral compass can guide you through the most challenging leadership decisions.

Sal's new book, "True North: A Story of Racism, Resilience and Resisting Systems of Denial" is available on Amazon and in all good bookshops. It offers a raw and honest account of his experiences fighting for change within the system while facing institutional resistance and personal challenges.

Photo credit: Lensi Photography

Buy Sal’s best-selling book, “True North: A Story of Racism, Resilience and Resisting Systems of Denial"

Subscribe to Sal’s newsletter https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/finding-your-true-north-7201671449361756160/

And please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

 

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

 

Slow-Burn Leadership: Why The Best Change Takes Time

We chat with John May, CEO of Cats Protection

Leading a charity with 1,000 staff and 10,000 volunteers requires a delicate balance of co-creation, patience, and cultural transformation. In this episode, John May shares insights from his role as Chief Executive of Cats Protection, discussing how to create lasting organisational change and foster meaningful partnerships between staff and volunteers.

At the heart of our conversation with John are powerful insights about creating sustainable change in large organisations:

• The evolution of voluntary organisations and the need for new partnership models between paid staff and volunteers

• Why co-creation, rather than compromise, leads to better decision-making

• The importance of taking time to build lasting change rather than seeking quick wins

• How to embed values deeply into organisational culture rather than letting them become mere PowerPoint slides

• Supporting pet owners through the cost-of-living crisis while expanding reach from 157,000 to millions of cats

John shares a refreshing perspective on leadership, emphasising that sustainable change often takes longer than we initially think and requires patience, gentle persuasion rather than imposition, and genuine co-creation with all stakeholders. Digital transformation isn't just about tech - it's about knowing when to build specialist teams, when to distribute expertise, and crucially, when your organisation is ready for change.

Zoe and Paul also discuss what Trump’s election win tells us about how leadership is changing.

 

Notes

Cats Protection
https://www.cats.org.uk/

News stories
https://iandunt.substack.com/p/scattered-thoughts-on-the-worst-of 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-musk-government-spending-audit-commission-b2607847.html

Find out more about the upcoming changes to The Charity Digital Code of Practice.

And please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

 

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

 

 

Digital Transformation, Influence & the Power of "Nosiness"

We chat to Said Dajani, Head of Digital at Diabetes UK

Digital transformation isn't just about tech - it's about knowing when to build specialist teams, when to distribute expertise, and crucially, when your organisation is ready for change. In this episode, Said Dajani shares insights from his 11-year journey as Head of Digital at Diabetes UK, discussing how to navigate organisational change and create innovative solutions in the charity sector.

Said shares practical wisdom about leading digital change in large organisations, including:

• How to build and maintain social capital for long-term change

• When to centralise or distribute digital expertise

• Ways to balance innovation with organisational readiness

• Approaches to implementing AI in healthcare services

• Methods for creating commercial opportunities while serving charitable objectives

The episode explores Said's experience of evolving from leading a centralised digital team, to fostering digital expertise across the organisation. His insights on timing, relationship building and organisational understanding offer valuable lessons for leaders managing similar transitions.

Zoe and Paul also discuss the news about changes to The Charity Digital Code of Practice.

 

Notes

Diabetes UK
https://www.diabetes.org.uk/
Listening Lab
https://www.listeninglab.co.uk/

Find out more about the upcoming changes to The Charity Digital Code of Practice. 

 

And please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

 

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

Rethinking Charity Leadership: Bold Strategies for a New Era

We speak to Mark Atkinson, Director General for the Royal British Legion

Join us for an insightful conversation with Mark Atkinson, Director General of the Royal British Legion, as he reflects on his first 100 days and beyond in this pivotal role.

In this game-changing episode, Mark shares fresh perspectives from his transition to the Royal British Legion in January 2024, tackling the big questions facing the sector:

• How can a 100+ year old institution like the Royal British Legion stay relevant in today's rapidly changing world?

• What does strategy development look like when balancing rich heritage with the need for innovation?

• How is the charity sector evolving post-pandemic, and what challenges lie ahead?

• How can the sector rediscover its mojo and innovate after the challenges of lockdown and and the ongoing cost of living crisis?

Drawing on his experiences at the Royal British Legion, RNID, and Scope, Mark offers a candid look at:

• Practical approaches to evidence-gathering and stakeholder engagement in strategy development

• Addressing 'small-c conservatism' in the charity sector to drive meaningful change

• Navigating leadership challenges in a post pandemic, changing workforce, particularly addressing the expectations of younger employees entering the sector

• The importance of making tough decisions to ensure long-term organisational success

• Strategies for reinvigorating the sector and finding new energy in the face of ongoing challenges

Mark discusses how charities can maintain their focus on evidence and delivery while carving out time to think creatively about the future, even in challenging times.

Whether you're a trustee, CEO, emerging leader, or passionate about the future of charities, this episode offers invaluable insights into the realities of leading major charities through periods of significant change. Tune in now to challenge your assumptions and join the conversation about why, and how, the future of the sector needs to look different to the present.

Zoe and Paul also discuss National Podcast Day the week we launch our 75th episode!

 

Notes

The Royal British Legion
https://www.britishlegion.org.uk/

 

And please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

From Authenticity to Audacity: Alina Addison's Blueprint for Purpose-Led Leadership

We chat to Alina Addison, author of ‘The Audacity Spectrum: Leading with Care, Courage and Non-Conformity’

In our latest Starts at the Top episode, we had the pleasure of speaking with Alina Addison, author of "The Audacity Spectrum" and founder of Adaptaa.

Alina's take on leadership is bold and refreshing. She challenges the idea that leaders are often pigeonholed as "too much" or "not enough", instead encouraging us to embrace our quirks and lead authentically.

We covered quite a bit of ground, including:

• Alina's intriguing 'eight A's' of leadership

• Why so-called 'soft skills' are actually hard to master

• Balancing care for others with self-care

• The role of emotional intelligence in decision-making

• Practical tips for more authentic leadership

Whether you're grappling with how to lead differently, or simply curious about new approaches to leadership, there's plenty to chew on here.

We were particularly struck by Alina's simple yet powerful advice: take a moment to breathe, say 'thank you' daily, and don't be afraid to take that first step towards change.

Do give it a listen. We think you'll find it a thought-provoking way to spend 45 minutes of your day.

In tech news, Zoe and Paul discuss why diversity in the tech workforce is getting less funding and airtime.

 

Notes
More about Alina’s book ‘The Audacity Spectrum’
https://profilebooks.com/2024/08/19/the-audacity-spectrum-read-an-extract/

Information about Adaptaa
https://adaptaa.co.uk/

BBC story about women in tech groups and diversity
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7858w2yj75o

Our episode with Maggie Philbin
https://www.startsatthetop.co.uk/episodes/episode13-maggiephilbin-teentech

And please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

 

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

AI and Accessibility: RNIB's Innovative Approach to Inclusive Technology

We chat with Jim Sanders, Director of Innovation and Transformation at RNIB.

In our new episode of Starts at the Top, we explore the intersection of AI, technology, and accessibility with Jim Sanders, Director of Innovation and Transformation at RNIB (Royal National Institute of Blind People). Jim shares how RNIB is leveraging innovative technologies, including AI, to create more inclusive solutions for blind and partially sighted people.

Key highlights:

• RNIB's innovative use of AI for services, including developing chatbots

• Addressing accessibility challenges through technological solutions, including the "last five metres" problem

• How designing for blind and partially sighted people often leads to better products for everyone

• RNIB's exploration of new business models that balance social impact and financial sustainability

• The importance of cross-sector collaboration in driving meaningful change in accessibility

Jim offers valuable insights on leadership in the digital age, emphasising the need for a broader, more collaborative approach to solving societal challenges. While AI is a part of RNIB's innovation strategy, Jim also discusses wider technological and design approaches to creating a more inclusive world.

This episode is essential listening for charity leaders, tech innovators, and anyone interested in how technology, including AI, can contribute to greater accessibility and inclusion.

What really excited us about this episode was hearing how RNIB is not just adapting to technological advancements, but actively shaping them to benefit all. This conversation will challenge your perceptions and inspire new thinking about inclusive design and innovation in the AI era. Don’t miss it!

In tech news, Zoe and Paul discuss the recent BBC Panorama programme about screen time for children and parenting, Can We Live Without Our Phones?

 

Notes
Find out more about RNIB
https://www.rnib.org.uk/

BBC Panorama programme - Can We Live Without Our Phones?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gdqzxypdzo

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0022n0f

And please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

Ethical AI: Charting the Course for Responsible Leadership

In our latest episode of Starts at the Top, we explore the ethical frontiers of AI with Tim Cook, founder of AIConfident and former head of the UK government's Office for Artificial Intelligence.

As AI revolutionises our world, Tim offers invaluable insights for leaders navigating this new landscape:

• Understanding AI's broader implications beyond tactical applications

• Balancing safe experimentation with strategic, ethical considerations

• AI's transformative impact on education, work, and knowledge acquisition

• The dual potential for groundbreaking innovation and significant risks

• Crafting organisational AI policies that promote responsible innovation

Drawing from his experience in government, Tim shares reflections on leading through turbulent times and the importance of maintaining perspective in high-pressure roles.

Tim discusses AI's potential to influence democratic processes worldwide through deep fakes and misinformation. However, he remains optimistic about AI's capacity to solve complex societal problems when used ethically and responsibly.

This episode is essential listening for everyone, whether you're just starting to explore AI or you're already well-versed in the technology. Whether AI excites or concerns you, Tim offers practical strategies for understanding its impact and using it ethically in your organisation. Learn how to foster a culture of responsible innovation and empower your team to embrace AI's potential while being mindful of its challenges.

Paul and Zoe also discuss the role of social media in the UK riots and what this means for organisations using these platforms.

Join us for a thought-provoking discussion that will challenge your perceptions and inspire you to lead with confidence and integrity in the AI era.

 

Notes
Find out more about AIConfident
https://www.aiconfident.co.uk/

UK Riots
Third Sector article https://www.thirdsector.co.uk/zoe-amar-uk-riots-turning-point-sector-fights-racism/management/article/1883476
News Agents’ episode about the far right on and offline https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/inside-the-cult-of-the-far-right/id1640878689?i=1000664840838

And please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (.srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.