Starts at the Top Podcast

Episode 84 - Steph Wright, Head of the Scottish AI Alliance

Decoding AI: Trust, Ethics, and the Path to Inclusive Innovation

Join Zoe Amar and Paul Thomas on Starts at the Top for a conversation with Steph Wright, Head of the Scottish AI Alliance. In this episode, we delve into the landscape of artificial intelligence, exploring how we can move beyond the hype to build a future where AI is not only innovative but also fundamentally trustworthy, ethical, and inclusive.

Steph brings a diverse perspective to the AI conversation, drawing from a fascinating background that spans astrophysics, the arts, and the third sector. She shares her unique journey and how these varied experiences have shaped her commitment to ensuring AI benefits everyone in society.

In this engaging discussion, Zoe, Paul, and Steph discuss:

• How Steph's unconventional career path informs her holistic approach to technology and her unwavering belief in the power of diverse perspectives within the AI field.

• The fundamental importance of embedding ethical considerations and inclusivity at the very core of AI development. Steph challenges the notion of these being secondary concerns, highlighting their crucial role in creating truly beneficial technologies.

• Why the relentless pursuit of increasingly large and powerful AI models can often overshadow the real-world impact and potential for harm. We discuss the need to shift focus towards tangible value and responsible application.

• The often-overlooked environmental and social implications of large language models and AI development, including energy consumption and the ethical sourcing of training data.

• The need for more diverse and dissenting voices to shape AI's future and the impactful work of Diverse AI in fostering a more representative and equitable ecosystem within AI.

• Advice on where to start, how to prioritise ethical considerations from the outset, and why a deep understanding of your specific challenges should always precede the technological solution.

Zoe and Paul also delve into:

• A discussion about the Charity AI Task Force's important response to the UK government's AI action plan, underscoring the essential role of civil society organisations in ensuring that AI works for the benefit of all members of society.

• Insights into a newly released global research report examining the accountancy sector's preparedness for AI adoption, highlighting both the opportunities and the potential challenges.

Charity AI Task Force response to government AI action plan

Chartered Accountants Worldwide - report on accountants and AI

Scottish AI Alliance

Steph Wright on LinkedIn

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

 

Episode 83 - Melissa Ezechukwu, freelance digital consultant and strategist

Leading differently - The AI hype cycle & building inclusive tech

We chat with with Melissa Ezechukwu, digital strategist.

 

In this episode, Zoe and Paul navigate the current whirlwind of tech trends, starting with the viral AI action figure craze that has dominated LinkedIn feeds. They discuss the online phenomenon, questioning its true value and the potential environmental impact of such widespread use of generative AI. Is this a glimpse into AI's potential to solve global issues or just a fleeting moment of digital self-obsession?

Then, they dive into a long-awaited and insightful conversation with Melissa Ezechukwu, a brilliant freelance digital consultant and strategist. With over 15 years of experience in the tech for good space, Mel shares her motivations for working with non-profits and socially conscious businesses, highlighting her passion for fairness and amplifying the voices of the underserved.

Mel recounts her accidental journey into the digital world, a path that many in the industry will find relatable. Her personal story underscores the challenges and the resilience required, particularly for women of colour, in navigating the often-unseen biases within the tech industry.

Zoe and Paul also explore with Mel the key digital trends impacting charities right now, including the double-edged sword of AI, the potential of automation, and the crucial role of data in creating joined-up and personalised user experiences. They question whether the traditional charity website is facing its twilight years and discuss the importance of thoughtful adoption of new technologies.

The conversation tackles the vital issue of diversity and inclusion in tech, particularly in the development and deployment of AI. Mel shares her insights on the dangers of biased datasets and the urgent need for diverse voices in shaping the future of technology, drawing on her experience with organisations like Global Tech Advocates Black Women in Tech.

In this episode, you'll hear about:

• The LinkedIn AI action figure trend: playful innovation or environmental concern?

• Mel's inspiring journey into the tech for good sector and her passion for social impact.

• The ongoing challenges of resource and siloed working within non-profit digital teams.

• Key digital trends for charities: AI, automation, and data-driven experiences.

• The enduring importance of a user-centred and effective charity website.

• The critical need for diversity and inclusion in tech, particularly in AI development, and the potential dangers of bias.

• Mel's work with Global Tech Advocates Black Women in Tech and the importance of building supportive networks.

• Invaluable advice Mel would give to her younger self navigating the tech industry as a woman of colour.

We hope you find this episode as thought-provoking and valuable as we did.

Thank you for tuning in to Starts at the Top. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a 5-star review on your favourite podcast platform – it truly helps us reach more leaders. Share this episode with a friend or colleague who you think would benefit from hearing these important conversations.

Join Zoe and Paul again in a couple of weeks for another episode of Starts at the Top, where we continue to explore what it takes to lead differently.

 

Show notes

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

Episode 82 - Brian Dow, Chief Executive of Mental Health UK and Deputy Chief Executive of Rethink Mental Illness

In this episode, we speak with Brian Dow, Chief Executive of Mental Health UK and Deputy Chief Executive of Rethink Mental Illness.

Brian shares insights from Mental Health UK’s 2025 Burnout Report highlighting the concerning rise of stress and burnout, particularly among young professionals, and the growing trust deficit between employers and employees.

Key Takeaways:

• The Burnout Reality: We explore the alarming statistics on stress and burnout in the UK workplace and the generational differences in how these issues are perceived and managed.

• Building Trust: Brian discusses the critical role of trust in fostering a healthy workplace culture and offers practical advice on how leaders can build and maintain that trust, especially with younger employees.

• Co-designing the Workplace: We examine the importance of involving employees in shaping workplace policies and practices to create a supportive and inclusive environment.

• Leadership and Vulnerability: Brian shares his leadership journey and emphasizes the importance of authenticity, empathy, and modeling positive behavior.

• The Power of Fun: We discuss the often-overlooked role of fun in building a positive workplace culture and mitigating the risks of toxic environments.

• Managing Wellbeing: Brian offers practical tips for managing well-being during challenging times, emphasizing the importance of facing challenges head-on.

• The effects of technology: The episode also touches on the effects of technology and social media on the well-being of younger generations, and how this impacts the workplace.

Inspired by this conversation, Zoe and Paul discuss mental health and the impact of social media and smartphones on children.

Show notes

Mental Health UK’s Burnout Report

Edelman’s Trust Barometer

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

Episode 81 - Srabani Sen - Srabani Sen OBE, Founder and CEO of Full Colour

What Leaders Need to Know: Navigating DEI in Today's Climate

We chat to Srabani Sen OBE, Founder and CEO of Full Colour

Are DEI efforts under threat? In a world where political winds shift and extreme views gain traction, how do leaders champion inclusion? What’s really happening in organisations on the ground? Join Zoe Amar and Paul Thomas as they dive deep with Srabani Sen, founder and CEO of Full Colour, in this powerful and timely episode.

What you'll discover:

• The evolving landscape of DEI: Srabani unpacks the current geopolitical climate and its impact on EDI programs, revealing the resilience of those committed to change.

• Beyond the headlines: We explore the lasting effects of recent social unrest and the importance of understanding diverse experiences.

• Practical strategies for inclusive leadership: Srabani shares actionable advice for organisations of all sizes, from prioritising initiatives to fostering a culture of psychological safety.

• The future of leadership: Learn how inclusive leadership is the key to navigating the accelerating pace of change and meeting the evolving expectations of stakeholders.

  In tech news, Zoe and Paul discuss a recent article about how parents are navigating the use of AI with their children, and how it is influencing their own parenting.

Show Notes

Find out more about Full Colour 

Zoe and Paul discussed:

Guardian article on AI and parenting https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/mar/01/parents-children-artificial-intelligence

Tim Cook episode https://www.startsatthetop.co.uk/episodes/tag/Tim+Cook

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

Episode 80 - Kwesi Afful - Executive Director of Digital and Marketing at Scope

Why Every Leader Needs an Exit Strategy

We chat with Kwesi Afful, Executive Director of Digital and Marketing at Scope.

Kwesi Afful, Executive Director of Digital and Marketing at Scope, joins us to discuss his bold approach to leadership: building the deletion of his role into the company's business plan.

In this episode of Starts at the Top, we have a cracking chat with Kwesi Afful, the Executive Director of Digital and Marketing at Scope. Kwesi shares his journey from the NHS to the charity sector and highlights the importance of collaboration and partnerships to achieve greater impact.

But here's the real kicker: Kwesi's decided to make his role redundant by April 2026! This bold move challenges traditional notions of leadership and succession planning, raising questions about how we can ensure a smooth transition and continued success for organisations.

 

Key takeaways from this episode:

• Collaboration is king: Kwesi highlights the power of working together to achieve greater impact, both within and across sectors.

• Building accessibility into technology: Kwesi discusses the importance of making technology accessible for everyone, including staff and beneficiaries.

• The value of cross-sector collaboration: Kwesi shares his experience working with Deloitte to develop an accessible GenAI tool and emphasizes the importance of standing up for your values in these collaborations.

• Charities need to work together more: Kwesi calls for greater collaboration among charities to share learning, increase purchasing power, and influence the ethical development of emerging technologies.

• The importance of an exit strategy: Kwesi's bold move to plan for the deletion of his role sparks a conversation about succession planning and the need for leaders to consider their exit strategy.

Join us as we explore these topics and more with Kwesi Afful in this inspiring episode of Starts at the Top.

Paul and Zoe discuss what’s happening with AI across the charity sector, including the new AI taskforce and the consultation for the new Charity Digital Code of Practice.

 

Show notes:

 

Find out more about Scope

Zoe and Paul discussed:

The Charity AI Taskforce https://www.wearecast.org.uk/our-work/how-we-work-with-funders-and-partners/charity-ai-task-force/

The Charity Digital Code of Practice consultation (small charities)

The Charity Digital Code of Practice consultation (large charities)

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

Re-publishing - Sal Naseem, author of “True North: A Story of Racism, Resilience and Resisting Systems of Denial”

We're republishing our episode with Sal Naseem ahead of our new season which starts this Thursday, 27th February. This episode launched in the lead-up to Christmas 2024 and we are incredibly proud of it. We wanted to give our listeners, another chance to listen and to bring it to the top of everyone's feeds. 

Trigger warning: This episode contains descriptions of racial abuse, workplace bullying, and discrimination which some listeners may find distressing

In this powerful episode, Sal Naseem, former Regional Director for London at the Independent Office for Police Conduct, shares his extraordinary journey of leading change within policing oversight during some of the most challenging cases in recent history, from Wayne Cousins to the Sarah Everard case. He discusses how maintaining your values and moral compass is crucial when pushing for systemic change, even in the face of intense resistance.

In his role as Regional Director for London at the Independent Office for Police Conduct, Sal spent nearly a decade overseeing some of the most high-profile police misconduct cases. Recognised as one of the top 10 voices on anti-discrimination on LinkedIn and named in the Diversity Power List 2023-24, Sal has contributed to several BBC documentaries and is a fellow of the Royal Society of Arts.

Through his deeply personal account, Sal shares vital lessons about leading change in complex systems:

• Why finding common purpose with unlikely allies is crucial for driving meaningful change

• The importance of approaching leadership with humility and leaving ego at the door

• How to maintain your values when faced with systemic resistance

• The true cost of driving change and the importance of self-care

• Why exceptional leadership is rooted in consistent character both inside and outside work

One of Sal's most powerful insights is that "to lead in a values-led way and to lead in a true sense is hard because you have to make hard choices." His experiences demonstrate how maintaining your moral compass can guide you through the most challenging leadership decisions.

Sal's new book, "True North: A Story of Racism, Resilience and Resisting Systems of Denial" is available on Amazon and in all good bookshops. It offers a raw and honest account of his experiences fighting for change within the system while facing institutional resistance and personal challenges.

Photo credit: Lensi Photography

Buy Sal’s best-selling book, “True North: A Story of Racism, Resilience and Resisting Systems of Denial"

Subscribe to Sal’s newsletter https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/finding-your-true-north-7201671449361756160/

And please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

 

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

 

Episode 79 - Alison Court, Chief Transformation Officer at Oxfam and a discussion about AI

The Year AI Changed Everything: 2024's Biggest Leadership Lessons

We chat to Alison Court, Chief Transformation Officer at Oxfam

In a special end-of-the-year episode, Starts at the Top tackles the elephant in every boardroom: artificial intelligence.

Paul and Zoe unpack how 2024 became the year AI moved from buzzword to business reality, revealing stark differences between how charities and companies are rising to the challenge.

Drawing on their vantage points across both sectors, Paul and Zoe deliver eye-opening insights: while grassroots charity workers are embracing AI with gusto (adoption soaring from 35% to 61% this year), many charity leaders remain hesitant. Meanwhile, the private sector is seeing AI reshape entire business models, backed by serious investment. The resulting discussion is both a wake-up call and a practical roadmap for 2025.

We discuss:

• Why 2024 marks a turning point in AI adoption across sectors

• The surprising truth about where AI innovation really happens in charities

• How private equity is transforming the accountancy sector through AI investment

• Essential lessons from Oxfam's pioneering approach to AI governance

• What charity boards must do differently in 2025

• Preview of game-changing AI guidance coming in the new Charity Digital Code of Practice

Featured Interview: Alison Court, Oxfam's Chief Transformation Officer, shares candid insights about getting board-level buy-in for AI innovation - a must-listen for anyone trying to drive digital change from the top.

Looking ahead to 2025, Paul and Zoe discuss their AI New Year's resolutions for leaders, including Zoe's insider preview of the updated Charity Digital Code of Practice and Paul's compelling case for putting AI at the heart of five-year strategies.

Don't miss this essential capstone to a year that changed everything about how we think about leadership and AI.

Note - The clip we discussed at the end of the episode hasn't been included. We'll add it to a future episode and share it on social media.

 

Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

 

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

 

Episode 78 - Sal Naseem, author of “True North: A Story of Racism, Resilience and Resisting Systems of Denial”

Trigger warning: This episode contains descriptions of racial abuse, workplace bullying, and discrimination which some listeners may find distressing

In this powerful episode, Sal Naseem, former Regional Director for London at the Independent Office for Police Conduct, shares his extraordinary journey of leading change within policing oversight during some of the most challenging cases in recent history, from Wayne Cousins to the Sarah Everard case. He discusses how maintaining your values and moral compass is crucial when pushing for systemic change, even in the face of intense resistance.

In his role as Regional Director for London at the Independent Office for Police Conduct, Sal spent nearly a decade overseeing some of the most high-profile police misconduct cases. Recognised as one of the top 10 voices on anti-discrimination on LinkedIn and named in the Diversity Power List 2023-24, Sal has contributed to several BBC documentaries and is a fellow of the Royal Society of Arts.

Through his deeply personal account, Sal shares vital lessons about leading change in complex systems:

• Why finding common purpose with unlikely allies is crucial for driving meaningful change

• The importance of approaching leadership with humility and leaving ego at the door

• How to maintain your values when faced with systemic resistance

• The true cost of driving change and the importance of self-care

• Why exceptional leadership is rooted in consistent character both inside and outside work

One of Sal's most powerful insights is that "to lead in a values-led way and to lead in a true sense is hard because you have to make hard choices." His experiences demonstrate how maintaining your moral compass can guide you through the most challenging leadership decisions.

Sal's new book, "True North: A Story of Racism, Resilience and Resisting Systems of Denial" is available on Amazon and in all good bookshops. It offers a raw and honest account of his experiences fighting for change within the system while facing institutional resistance and personal challenges.

Photo credit: Lensi Photography

Buy Sal’s best-selling book, “True North: A Story of Racism, Resilience and Resisting Systems of Denial"

Subscribe to Sal’s newsletter https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/finding-your-true-north-7201671449361756160/

And please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

 

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

 

Episode 77 - John May, Chief Executive of Cats Protection

Slow-Burn Leadership: Why The Best Change Takes Time

We chat with John May, CEO of Cats Protection

Leading a charity with 1,000 staff and 10,000 volunteers requires a delicate balance of co-creation, patience, and cultural transformation. In this episode, John May shares insights from his role as Chief Executive of Cats Protection, discussing how to create lasting organisational change and foster meaningful partnerships between staff and volunteers.

At the heart of our conversation with John are powerful insights about creating sustainable change in large organisations:

• The evolution of voluntary organisations and the need for new partnership models between paid staff and volunteers

• Why co-creation, rather than compromise, leads to better decision-making

• The importance of taking time to build lasting change rather than seeking quick wins

• How to embed values deeply into organisational culture rather than letting them become mere PowerPoint slides

• Supporting pet owners through the cost-of-living crisis while expanding reach from 157,000 to millions of cats

John shares a refreshing perspective on leadership, emphasising that sustainable change often takes longer than we initially think and requires patience, gentle persuasion rather than imposition, and genuine co-creation with all stakeholders. Digital transformation isn't just about tech - it's about knowing when to build specialist teams, when to distribute expertise, and crucially, when your organisation is ready for change.

Zoe and Paul also discuss what Trump’s election win tells us about how leadership is changing.

 

Notes

Cats Protection
https://www.cats.org.uk/

News stories
https://iandunt.substack.com/p/scattered-thoughts-on-the-worst-of 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-musk-government-spending-audit-commission-b2607847.html

Find out more about the upcoming changes to The Charity Digital Code of Practice.

And please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

 

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

 

 

Episode 76 - Said Dajani, Head of Digital at Diabetes UK

Digital Transformation, Influence & the Power of "Nosiness"

We chat to Said Dajani, Head of Digital at Diabetes UK

Digital transformation isn't just about tech - it's about knowing when to build specialist teams, when to distribute expertise, and crucially, when your organisation is ready for change. In this episode, Said Dajani shares insights from his 11-year journey as Head of Digital at Diabetes UK, discussing how to navigate organisational change and create innovative solutions in the charity sector.

Said shares practical wisdom about leading digital change in large organisations, including:

• How to build and maintain social capital for long-term change

• When to centralise or distribute digital expertise

• Ways to balance innovation with organisational readiness

• Approaches to implementing AI in healthcare services

• Methods for creating commercial opportunities while serving charitable objectives

The episode explores Said's experience of evolving from leading a centralised digital team, to fostering digital expertise across the organisation. His insights on timing, relationship building and organisational understanding offer valuable lessons for leaders managing similar transitions.

Zoe and Paul also discuss the news about changes to The Charity Digital Code of Practice.

 

Notes

Diabetes UK
https://www.diabetes.org.uk/
Listening Lab
https://www.listeninglab.co.uk/

Find out more about the upcoming changes to The Charity Digital Code of Practice. 

 

And please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear!

Editing and production - Syren Studios with Paul Thomas

Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music

Full transcript of this episode (srt file)

Full transcript of this episode (.txt file)

 

Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.